Common Sense Atheism: Index

6 comments

Zeb
 says...
6-12-2010

cl, I’m glad you posted this because I wanted to get a message to you outside of the context of specific discussions on CSA. You make good, insightful contributions to that site, and since I often agree with you I’m glad there is someone else there defending my positions better than I sometimes can. However I don’t think anything of value would be lost if you stopped engaging in personal combat with juvenile snipers. It is sufficient, I think, when you simply say “For personal reasons dating from previous threads, I choose not to engage with [whomever],” and otherwise ignore trollish behavior. I think it’s safe to assume all onlookers will dismiss the trollish behavior and accept your choice of silence in response to seemingly valid questions/challenges from designated commentors. I respect that strategy when you do use it, but when you don’t it just makes sorting out your (and other people’s) important contributions more difficult.
Cheers.
cl
 says...
6-12-2010

Hi Zeb.
It is sufficient, I think, when you simply say “For personal reasons dating from previous threads, I choose not to engage with [whomever],” and otherwise ignore trollish behavior. I think it’s safe to assume all onlookers will dismiss the trollish behavior and accept your choice of silence in response to seemingly valid questions/challenges from designated commentors.
Yeah, I had a feeling something like that was coming from somebody with a brain. On the one hand, I fully agree with you. That’s fair enough and something I often question. Because so few people speak up, it makes judging the audience difficult. Yet, on the other hand, I’m thinking “only if it were that simple.”
FWIW:
I don’t necessarily consider this personal combat as much as factual. Personally, I don’t care about these “juvenile snipers” you allude to. At the same time, when they post blatant lies or accusations without evidence I feel the need to challenge those errors on rational grounds. I’ve seen states of affairs where newbies and/or more trolls come along and start swallowing the lies and empty claims. Besides, if even a handful of people were willing to do what you just did, it wouldn’t be an issue. I’d feel like, “Hey, okay.. it’s not just me. Everyone else thinks these guys are fools too.” You know what I mean?
Ultimately, I blame Luke. I really do. Not that I give a damn about blog ratings, but if I had a site with 12.5 million readers a month you can bet your ass I would’ve handled these “juvenile snipers” real quick. Believe me, all Luke would have to do is say something forcefully one time, and I guarantee you at least some of these hecklers would slow their (t)roll. I can’t believe that on his own site, Luke tolerates so much of that which he criticizes in the New Atheists. Hmph.
That so few people are willing to stick up for the truth while praising the ethos of desirism is utter hypocrisy. Here we have some clear-cut cases that deserve group condemnation you’d think would be happening if those participating were objectively applying the moral theory they so loftily espouse.
Still, you’re absolutely right. I’ll widen the scope of my promise to include some more juvenile snipers and really hone in on what we’re all there for. Thanks for sayin’ hey, and I look forward to next week.
Zeb
 says...
6-14-2010

I think Luke handles trollish behavior quite well, parsing out valid questions and points, ignoring nonsense and ad hominems, and dropping out of dead end conversations. So far I don’t see the need to go the route of censorship or banning – it’s so hard to tell who or what might become worthwhile in time (witness caseywollberg and noen). I respect your choice to set the record straight when people attack you, don’t think it’s necessary beyond the briefest dispassionate mention. Their immature insults and nonsensical criticisms are serve to embarrass the authors in my opinion.
By the way, I agree about desirists, I have yet to see one practice their moral system in the presence (even virtual) of the offender. But if every moral system were judged by the behavior of its proponents, we might all become nihilists. Personally am opting to use praise a little more than I would have if desirism weren’t so conspicuously on the table. So, good posts over the weekend and today. I hope Alonzo provides more of an answer to the 200 P vs 1 ~P question.
cl
 says...
6-14-2010

…good posts over the weekend and today. I hope Alonzo provides more of an answer to the 200 P vs 1 ~P question.
Thanks, I hope he does, too, but unfortunately it’s a fact that he’s known to bail on discussions right about this point (by this point I mean once tough questions have been uncovered). Though it’s possible he may return to the thread at some point in the future, I offer Luke’s post Draw Mohammed as [tentative] evidence for my claim. I really wish he’d explain his claim that the Greeks were “probably wrong” concerning pederasty, too.
Re trolling, and how Luke handles it, I agree that he ignores trolling [mostly, but I have seen him take bait on at least one occasion], but that’s part of the problem IMO. When a parent refuses to quell in-house fighting between siblings, many would call that parent lazy and condemn them. Like I said, Hermes, for example, has stated that he “likes and respects” Luke [or Alonzo, for that matter]. Therefore, it is a reasonable argument that folks like Hermes and faithlessgod would be more favorable to reproach from Luke or Alonzo, than, say, polymeron, Godless Randall, Thomas Reid, JS Allen or myself.
So far I don’t see the need to go the route of censorship or banning – it’s so hard to tell who or what might become worthwhile in time (witness caseywollberg and noen).
Generally, I detest banning and censorship. That’s not necessarily what I’m asking for. I’m asking for condemnation, especially when demonstrably deserved. I think both noen and caseywollberg make good points overall. I think noen just gets a bad rap, whereas caseywollberg tries to be condescending and offending.
…if every moral system were judged by the behavior of its proponents, we might all become nihilists.
Apt words.
Zeb
 says...
6-14-2010

You’re right, Luke could and probably should at least say something once in a while, and some of the people you mentioned would probably take it to heart.
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