We’re Praying For You
Posted in Quickies, Religion on | 1 minute | 20 Comments →
Today’s post consists of a few quick questions:
1) Has anybody ever told you that they were praying for you?
2) If so, do you know why they were?
3) Regardless of 2, how did this make you feel, and why?
4) What do you think of people who tell other people they were praying for them? Is your opinion always X or Y, or, does your opinion change given circumstances and context?
apologianick
says...Depends on the person. Some I think are. Some I think are just saying it to be “spiritual.”
Ana
says...4) I’d have to know exactly what the content of the prayer is (as opposed to who or what the prayer concerns in a general sense ). So I think I would go with my opinion can change.
For instance, there are people who are praying for Christopher Hitchens, who has esophageal cancer. It might sound benign, but in fact, it alone does not tell us what people hope their prayer will accomplish.
Some may be praying for his recovery. Some for his spiritual salvation, some for a stable emotional endurance to come upon his family during the evolution of his cancer, some for all three. My opinion of these kinds of praying episodes is that they are loving and good.
And then there might be some who pray for Christopher Hitchens to die a painful death and go to hell — as there are people in this world who would pray for such things. My opinion of this kind of praying episode is that it is dispicable.
Touching upon what apologianick said, it also would be interesting if one could determine how many people who say ” I will pray for you ” (and I’m referring to those with benign intentions behind their words) actually follow through and devote a prayer to the person who they told they’d do it for.
paikea
says...Good questions:
1. yes
2. yes
3. It usually makes me feel like they want something from me – like the praying is not about altruism, but to get me to admit that it really works or that they’re not-so-subtly trying change my heathen mind. (Especially when some stand there and do it right in front of me.)
4. a) Generally, I think they’re trying to push their belief system onto me. Mostly, when i was religious, i would never have thought about saying “I’m praying for you” to someone to a complete stranger. Come to think of it, I never even said it to family. I consider religion a private thing.
b) I’d really like to believe that when someone telle me they’re praying for me, it is solely for altruistic purposes, but until I really see this, I stand with my thoughts on No. 2. Also, since I don’t actually believe that praying makes any difference at all, it’s kind of hard to take any of it seriously. That colors things.
Christopher
says...1) No. No one has actually told me this even though I am pretty sure people have.
3)It depends on the situation and the person praying. I have a hard time giving my mother a straightforward “Can you prove to me that praying is working?” If it was almost anyone else, I would thank them, mainly because I feel that the act would be an act of altruism, but then I would ask how praying actually works for them.
4) I ask if they honestly believe that their petitions work. I ask if they have been keeping track of when their prayers are and aren’t answered. I ask if when they pray if they have real conversations with god. Unfortunately, I do not get very many good responses.
apologianick
says...Christopher. I’m really curious. What do you mean by “a conversation with God?” I see this in pop Christianity today, but it’s not taught in the Bible.
Leah
says...Great questions, cl. I ran a little long in my answers, so I ended up spinning it off into a blog post, hope you don’t mind.
cl
says...Hey all. Thanks for the input. My take:
1) Yes, on more than one occasion.
2) Sometimes I had an idea of why they were praying for me, though I never asked for specifics [I just might next time].
3) Sometimes I’ve felt good about it, other times I’ve wondered if there wasn’t an element of judgment motivating the prayer.
4) My feelings change with the context. For example, if, in response to my leanings towards annihilationism, a traditionalist said, “I’ll pray for you that God might show you the truth,” I think at least part of my reaction would be to attribute their praying to judgment: they think they’re right and I’m wrong, so they’re going to pray for me. Yet, why not pray for all parties involved? Why not pray and tell God something like, “Lord, please shine some light on the discussion cl and I are having, such that we might both know Your truth?”
Another factor: who’s around such that they might overhear a “I’m praying for you” comment? In fact, the particular situation that motivated this post involved a friend who had had some troubles with the drug and alcohol based lifestyle. At a party recently, I overheard a man I know tell her that he was praying for her. I couldn’t help but wonder if that was genuine, or a Pharisaical show of religiosity, as apologianick alluded to? Then, I couldn’t help but wonder whether I was being too judgmental, as opposed to just taking it as a genuine interest in my friend’s well-being.
Human pride can be so insidious it’s often hard to tell when it’s at work in ourselves and others!
Ana,
I agree.
paikea,
Good point. Although, how would we know? As I alluded to, aren’t you and I–as the recipients of prayer–going to color the experience by our own feelings? How would we be able to tell the difference between a prayer motivated by love and a prayer motivated by something not love? It seems tricky to me.
Christopher,
Ha! I hear you there, for sure.
Leah,
No worries, and thanks. I enjoyed your post, and the thread. You’ve managed to attract some good commenters over there.
paikea
says...How do I know. I guess, if I know the person, I know where that sentiment is coming from. For example, I also have a hard time giving my mom the “Can you prove to me that praying is working.” I know that when she says she’s “praying for me”, she’s also praying that I find god and jesus again someday. Lol! Regarding strangers who come up to me, they’re basically proselytizing – in my book, that falls under disingenueous- ness.
Yesterday, while I was busy posting on FB information on the earthquake in Japan (and on NZ being at risk for the resulting tsunami spread), the mother of one of my best friend from school commented that she was “praying for NZ”. While I know that came from a good place (and she also knows I’m an atheist, as is her son), I can never help but wonder: well, what about all the other countries you’re obviously praying for. What about people who got killed and hurt there. What about Japan? Is that just because people didn’t pray enough?
My problem is that while people obviously attribute all the good stuff to God/Jesus/whomever, they rarely attribute the bad stuff. So, if one’s chosen deity, who is all-powerful and obviously powerful enough to save lives (that’s why one’s presumably praying to him/her/it, wouldn’t he be just as responsible for killing all those people as well?
So, why the heck would I want to pray to someone like that. He just hauled off and killed hundreds of innocent people.
So, how could I possibly look at the sentiment that I’m being prayed for in a good light?
It’s a disconnect I’ve never been comfortable with.
cl
says...paikea,
Though not failsafe, I’d say that seems like a useful metric.
Well, I can’t speak for anyone else, obviously, but I look at it like this: death and suffering resulted from the fall, and we’re not going to be able to reverse that fact this side of eternity. Fairness goes out the window in a world of human sin. People are going to get killed and hurt everywhere. If I remember correctly, when I prayed for the people in Haiti, I prayed that God would be with the survivors and that good would somehow result according to God’s will.
The way I see it, there are at least two categories of “bad stuff” in this world. One category is at least partially attributable to God, and is comprised of things like death, disease, and natural disasters. The second category is comprised of things like murder, theft, greed, etc. I do not believe these things are attributable to God, but man [and perhaps malevolent spiritual entities].
Presuming the Japan quakes were in the first category I mentioned above, then, yes. God is responsible. Of course, on my view, there are no innocent people. The entire race is tainted by sin.
I can definitely understand the disconnect you allude to. This is not an easy world we live in.
Christopher
says...apologianick,
“Christopher. I’m really curious. What do you mean by “a conversation with God?” I see this in pop Christianity today, but it’s not taught in the Bible”
At the time in my life when I labeled myself a Christian, I always prayed and hoped that I would actually hear God talk to me. I wouldn’t really say that not getting ‘answers’ to my prayers and questions was a reason for my deconversion, but in hindisght I look at those times when I prayed as times that I did not take responsibilities for situations in my life. As I live now in my worldview (perhaps atheist, not quite sure – naturally I do not claim to know one way or the other), I feel as I am being more accountable to myself and the people around me.
Christopher
says...cl,
‘Well, I can’t speak for anyone else, obviously, but I look at it like this: death and suffering resulted from the fall, and we’re not going to be able to reverse that fact this side of eternity.’
This is one of my biggest problems with christianity. Why would god bring me into the world as a sinner? Why am I responsible for other peoples’ actions before I can even create thought? If he loves me and has a specific plan for me, why would he ensure that the plan (to praise him) is carried out according to his plan? Sorry for the wording, but it is hard to make it coherent.
paikea
says...Hmm. Are you saying that perhaps if we do attribute the earthquake to God, then we deserved it in some way? Yikes. I always wonder how a person gets to the point in which this is an acceptable view.
As for the theft, murder, etc. If God made humans, than he really shouldn’t be surprised. As for the malevolent spiritual entities – I don’t buy it. I’ve always seen Satan/MSE’s as people’s way of excusing God so they’re not stuck worshipping an obviously crappy god.
That said, I do think there’s much to like in poly-theism – why not have a god who likes to do naughty, mischievous, or downright catastrophic things. Things happen. Although I can’t bring myself to accept the idea of even one god – several would be a problem:) Fun to think about, though.
Ah. I don’t think there’s any such thing as sin. I really hate the idea that we’re all “tainted by sin” – doomed from the start, and have to slog our way through existence, begging and hoping for salvation. How horrid. Perhaps it’s a glass half-full thing. I always saw most religions on the glass half-empty side, and I am just not that person.
The way I see it, all the organisms on this earth exist in a gray area – there is no black and white. – and that is not a bad thing. We all have good in us; we all have not-so-good in us. We all fluctuate in that spectrum – and that’s where it all gets very interesting – it’s all in our anatomy.
These past few weeks for me have been both overwhelming and educational. This earthquake and the resulting tsunamis have been tragic, but scientifically, they’ve been absolutely fascinating. Planet Earth is literally awesome. The human race is so lucky to have evolved on it!
Yeah, it’s not an easy world, but I’d hate it if life on it was boring.
cl
says...Christopher,
I believe God was going to bring you into the world either way.
Sin robs life of fairness.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by that one.
paikea,
As for your paragraphs 2-6, I suppose we agree to disagree.
If the wages of sin was eternal life, I believe the world would contain more sin. Therefore, we must die, to keep sin in check.
I agree! I skateboard. I’m a fun-loving person, and I am literally never bored.
Christopher
says...cl,
Sin robs life of fairness.
That really didn’t answer my question. I am not asking why life isn’t fair. In fact I would not say that life isn’t fair. I want a reason why I am accountable for something which I have no control over.
paikea
says...cl:
I really must look at your dog-on-skateboard pics!
Eh. Death is simply nature’s way of keeping the population in check. Personally, I would like to live long enough to see regular space travel, but I doubt it’s going to happen in my life time. Sadly.
I’m never bored, either. I suppose it’s why I have such trouble sleeping! I can’t get myself to stop thinking about things:)
cl
says...Christopher,
I know, I wasn’t thinking you were.
I disagree, but, that’s probably tangential.
You are accountable for your sin, as am I for mine, and the rest of us for ours.
paikea,
Honestly, it dumbfounds me when I hear people say they’re bored. I simply cannot identify with that, at all! Maybe we just have over-active imagination. Or, maybe the rest of the world is just dull!
paikea
says...There aren’t enough hours in the day, or night, come to think of it. I really wish I could run on only a few hours of sleep. There’s so much to do and so much to learn – the more you know, the more you don’t know, and all that. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve found that my brain is actually more hungry for knowledge and new experiences. It’s so much fun, if a little tiring:)
Shmuelish
says...Yes
Various. At times, they were wanting me to become a Christian.
Certain apathy, although when people explicitly say “I’ll be praying for you/your loved one to get better/succeed” to a non-believer, it tends to become awkward. Because there does, culturally at least, seem to be an expectation of a “thank you” in return – I would appreciate the sentiment… but why should you thank someone for praying to a god you don’t believe exists?
I think it would be intellectually dishonest, or inconsistent at least, to differ your opinion based on which religion was in question. After all, many people in the west may not object if a Christian were to offer a prayer to them… but what if it were an offer of a prayer to Allah? Or to Brahman? Some new-age figure? Do we just thank people regardless, whoever they pray to, whatever beliefs they hold?
What if it came from someone who was part of what we might consider a “cult”? If it were a Scientologist from what’s called the Freezone – those we have dissociated themselves from the criminal church – do we afford them the same consideration as members of a “normal” religion then? If not, why not?
I think just about anyone would have, however small, some gratitude for a profession of consideration from the religious, be it in the form of prayer to their specific deity. But perhaps the faithful would do well to understand that it might serve the exchange better for people to communicate their empathy for others in a language that all parties, regardless of worldviews, understood. After all, what if a tribesman offered to dance round a fire for you?..
cl
says...Shmuelish,
It’s all in what you choose to focus on. If it’s somebody you’d consider a friend or a loved one, and they’re doing it out of love, then, a heartfelt “thank you” might be in order, despite the difference in beliefs. If it’s somebody you’d consider pompous or “Pharisaical” then perhaps a sarcastic “thank you” might be in order. Regardless, we don’t have to always focus on the differences between ourselves and others. I mean, if some ET enthusiast prayed to the interplanetary god Xeltar for me, and it was genuine, as in that person was really concerned for my welfare and not just for selfish reasons, then I’d take it as a positive thing, my curiosities about Xeltar aside. But that’s just me.
Perhaps, but I didn’t actually say that; I was asking if people’s opinions changed on context and circumstance, meaning the disposition of the person praying, not their religion: as in, were they genuine vs. were they self-righteous, that sort of thing.
I think my “Xeltar” bit explains my view for the most part. If the person is level-headed and genuine, I’ll probably take it as a positive thing, regardless of their belief. If the person is creepy or self-righteous, I’ll probably experience a bit of a disconnect, regardless of belief.
Yeah, that’s basically how I’ve always thought of it. I just try to not make any assumptions about people in general, which requires paying a lot of attention to language and unlearning quite a few of society’s habits.
paikea
says...I’d rather just smile and nod instead of saying thank you. To me, saying thank you to a person implies things about me that isn’t true – i.e. that I see anything valid in the fact that you’re praying for me and that I actually agree that praying actually accomplishes anything. I’d rather just go neutral (without giving offense) if I can. Somebody who says they’re praying for me is already pushing their beliefs in my face, no matter what their motive – I’m paying them a courtesy they haven’t paid me by not actually saying anything about that (if I don’t have to, which is in most cases).