Question #7: No Evidence For A Global Flood?
Posted in Creationism, Epistemology, Humor, Questions on | 1 minute | 17 Comments →
Though partly tongue-in-cheek and meant to convey a humorous little insight I occasionally chuckle at, there is an element of seriousness behind today’s question. Simply put: if water covers over 70% of Earth’s surface to this day, what are we to make of the skeptic’s demand for “evidence” of a worldwide deluge? I can’t help but return to the humorous proposition implied in Asteroids, Cathode Rays and Requisite Knowledge, wherein a skeptic standing in Tin Bider mocks Aristotle’s hypothetical claim about “huge, flying rocks in space.”
Bret
says...What about the earth being 70% covered by water is “evidence” for an historic deluge? If you would define how this is “evidence”, then the conversation could move forward in showing you how it is not.
cl
says...You really don’t know?
Bret
says...I’m asking for your definition of “evidence”. From which, if it is coherent, one could point you to all other kinds of “evidence” against a worldwide deluge.
cl
says...In the loosest sense, “evidence for” hypothesis X would denote observations consistent with what one might expect if hypothesis X were true.
dale
says...cl,
As a theist, I don’t see how the ocean’s existence are proof of the flood. Per the Bible’s account, when God separated the waters above from the waters below; by the creation of the sky, the oceans were formed. Something that exists first cannot be created by an event that occurs later. The oceans could have grown in mass, volume, and placement, but that’s not proof of their creation.
To be clear, I believe the worldwide deluge did happen.
cl
says...Dale,
I’m not arguing, in any way, shape or form, that the oceans are “proof” of the deluge. Although I do believe today’s post contains an important idea with regard to claims of evidence, this was meant to be a humorous post. Hence, the category, “humor,” and the “partially tongue-in-cheek” disclaimer in the opening line!
The whole point is that people can be amidst the very evidence they claim doesn’t exist. I don’t know if you read the linked post, but that’s what the “Tin Bider” remark was meant to illustrate.
I guess I’m just bad at comedy :)
BenYachov
says...>I was going to just let this go and ignore you like Paps but you’ve went off on so many tangents, now I have to correct all the false information, as well as ask a few questions about the genuine bewilderments your diatribe entails…
So I am Paps? Cute!
>Correct, except, “incorrigible”. That’s because Dan was actively seeking conversation with you, and it makes no sense to actively seek conversation with somebody one thinks incorrigible. That’s precisely why I’m trying my best to avoid conversation with you. That’s the difference.
If you want that then don’t take it upon yourself to be my self-appointed moral corrector. I didn’t give you the job & not being Catholic you are not qualified IMHO. Now you got me all the way over here on your blog?
Yah happy with that?
>Nonsense. Learn what “bear false witness” means before you go shooting off accusations. I misunderstood something you said, and you acted like a jerk about it, just like you are here.
You accused me of mocking & belittling Cole for His mental illness. I’m the Father of three Autistic Kids that hits me where I live! I just came back from a SPECIAL PEOPLE’s Mass with them that only happens once a month when I read your attack on me. It is bearing false witness since you ran in half cocked without knowing all the facts. BTW You still hit back after I hit you for that. cl try misunderstanding something & accidentally calloh let’s say a Holocaust survivor a JACK BOOTED THUG & see what happens. That’s how I felt.
>I forgave you then, I also apologized, and then I forgot about it. So your armchair assumptions that I’m still hung up on that are ludicrous.
If you say so.
>I don’t care. Your wife is irrelevant here. Your assumption that I’m an “Evangelical” is mistaken. If you want to spread the gospel with profanity sprinkled here and there, be my guest. I have the right to disapprove.
More like ranting about it in multiple posts even in your last post to Dan after he punked you. Also don’t be silly I’ve read the thread about the REAL PRESENCE. Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Protestant etc you are neither Catholic or Orthodox so by default you are one of these three. You must accept it.
>I have the right to take a stand and say that your demeanor and attitude are simply not biblical here.
cl I am a Catholic & you are at best a material heretic in my eyes. Bob I might have taken this from(& did as I recall to some extent). But someone who denies the Real Presence & believes Zwingli’s degenerate “symbol” heresy has no right to “correct” me biblically. Next time get Bob to yell at me. Him I will listen too. You not so much.
>No salt, no grace, no love or fruit of the spirit, just attack, attack, attack, and mean-spirited at that. First at Dan, now even at another believer!
No Eucharist? Sorry pass!
>Who is Gaven? What is going on in your head?
Yeh next time if it’s not your blog don’t list it under MY BLOGS. Thank you.
>I never would have guessed because, quite honestly, you act 14. Come back and reread this thread in a few weeks after you’ve settled down.
Still rebuking contrary to the bible eh? Tisk! Tisk! Tisk!
>I did. You lashed out in return, instead of stopping and thinking whether anything I said might have a grain of truth. I should have known better, as I’m not a newb here.
No you clearly rebuked. I think Bob is older then me so I would accept him talking down to me like you did. But you sonny mind your elders.
But I forgive you.;-)
>Unforgiveness? There’s no unforgiveness whatsoever. How could I *NOT* forgive you? Christ forgives me of far worse offenses. Believe me, I would like nothing better than for you to just think about what I’ve said and go on your merry way.
Yet in your last post to your boyfriend Dan you still take shots at me? I’m hysterical? You don’t look like someone who has let it go.
>No “truce,” as there is no war. All I said is that you’re acting like a jerk, and you are. I was content to drop this a long time ago, but you just have to keep pushing, post after post after post.
You deny you haven’t been pushing? Maybe you should rethink that sonny.
>I wouldn’t have even bothered another response, but I felt obligated to, because you’re going off on all these wild assumptions and tangents about me.
Yes I know how that feels. I have recent experience with it.
>Have the last word. Get your last digs in. So long as it doesn’t contain any factual errors or odd tangents that require explanation, I won’t be responding.
Last word.
BTW I would never use foul language in your house. But Victor’s House is not yours….
cl
says...Well, I *DID* say I would ignore Yachov if he came over here acting like a 14-year-old, and that he did, but one thing I can’t let slide, since it is, at best, an indication of his immense pride, and at worst, an indication of his downright dishonesty (I’m not sure which evil force is at work). When I asked, “Who’s Gaven?” (because he kept calling me Gaven in this thread, as a result of clicking on my Blogger profile where “Gavin in India” is listed as a blog I follow) he tried to put the blame on me, replying, quite smugly I might add:
…yet, click this link. Does it say “My Blogs” anywhere on there? No. Rather, it clearly says, “Blogs I Follow.” Yachov was just angry, in a hurry, and overlooked the facts, IOW, he’s flat-out wrong. This was another mistake he made when he went into a frothing rage, letting his anger get the best of him (as we all do at times). The real test of his manhood and honesty is what he’ll do next. Will he admit it and put forth a genuine apology? Or will he continue to kick and squirm like a 14-year-old in a headlock?
[…grabbing popcorn…]
cl
says...Well well! The verdict is in: too proud to admit error, even in something as small as misreading a clear headline in a frothing rage. Lest anyone think I’m making this up, or, in the event anyone really cares, click this link, then do a “control+F” for “October 10, 2012 10:27 PM” and you will find:
Right. Yachov was so angry he couldn’t read and/or comprehend what he was reading, and even after being called on it, it’s “my confusing” profile, and I’m the one to blame. Take notice, folks, this is stubborn pride run amok. Religiosity at it’s worst. A total pity.
BenYachov
says...@cl
How old are you boy?
>Well, I *DID* say I would ignore Yachov if he came over here acting like a 14-year-old, and that he did, but one thing I can’t let slide, since it is, at best, an indication of his immense pride, and at worst, an indication of his downright dishonesty (I’m not sure which evil force is at work).
Immense Pride? Dishonesty? You are real quick with the judgmental attacks cl. That is a great Christian example on your part let me tell ya. You set the standard others can follow.
>…yet, click this link. Does it say “My Blogs” anywhere on there? No. Rather, it clearly says, “Blogs I Follow.”
Yeh genius I recalled over at Dangerous Idea that I might be confusing your profile with Gavin’s who does list Gavin in India under MY BLOGS FYI.
(I previously suggested you might either be lying, mistaken or a victim of a hacker or some unknown internet anomaly)
I still blamed you because it’s your confusing profile.
But of course my “blame” is clearly sarcasm & if you took that seriously & took real offensive well I apologize.
But I blame you for being you.
Cheers.
BenYachov
says...>Well well! The verdict is in: too proud to admit error, even in something as small as misreading a clear headline in a frothing rage.
>Yachov was so angry he couldn’t read and/or comprehend what he was reading, and even after being called on it, it’s “my confusing” profile, and I’m the one to blame. Take notice, folks, this is stubborn pride run amok. Religiosity at it’s worst. A total pity.
So what is your game here son? Acting like a jerk to me to show me what it’s like to teach me a lesion?
Yeh one word for you son.
Subtlety!
Your too obvious here. Nice try though.
BenYachov
says...cl
Serious question.
Don’t you think there it might look like a bit of a disconnect to plead “No salt, no grace, no love or fruit of the spirit, just attack, attack, attack, and mean-spirited at that.” to me on the one hand then turn around and attack me by saying I’m “frothing rage”, “stubborn pride run amok”, and have “downright dishonesty”?
Doesn’t that defeat your purpose because it is such an obvious contradiction?
Serious question. Offered seriously, honestly and without any intention of “trapping you”.
OTOH disregard the question if you are merely trying to be satirical and over the top. Since I understand that completely. Nice to know I am rubbing off on you.L-)
Cheers.
jason
says...cl & ben,
shouldn’t you two set aside your differences in the interest of any non-believer reading this exchange?
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
jason
says...cl,
btw, i found this thought exceedingly interesting especially given Jeremiah 1:5.
“Also, how do you know you never consented to being brought into Earth? For all we know, each one of us may have had a pre-birth conversation with God, wherein we were fully warned of the consequences.”
cl
says...jason,
Most certainly. In the original thread in question, I’ve apologized for my part in this fiasco. Although, make no mistake: it is not “unbiblical” to confront fellow believers when their actions are out of line with Scripture. Contrary, it’s a practice with biblical precedent. But, yeah, you’re absolutely correct. I’ve forgiven, I’ve asked for forgiveness, and I’ve moved on. If you read the thread over there, you’ll notice, countless times, where I tried to cutoff the conversation. Once the false information about me started surfacing, I felt compelled to correct those errors. But, believe me, I’m done with it.
WRT Jeremiah 1:5, yeah, that does open up a new line of discussion regarding Dan’s argument (if indeed that’s what you’re referring to).
As always, I appreciate your insights.
jason
says...cl,
i agree, it is not unbiblical. i’m just saying to possibly consider Galatians 6:1 – Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
i don’t say it to rebuke, btw. i tell you as one who is well practiced in not heeding this verse and struggles mightily to apply it myself.
cl
says...WRT Galations 6:1, it’s a point well taken. I tried to honor that spirit in my first remark over there, and really, I tried to honor it in all my subsequent remarks. However, once Yachov turned up the heat, I gave less than my best. I struggled mightily over there, believe me. None of us are perfect.
Today’s a new day. I’m totally over it. I feel great. A clean heart feels great.