For better or for worse, here’s what they say about me. In the interest of impartiality, I’ve given you the good, the bad, the ugly, and some that don’t fit neatly into any of those categories. I think you’ll notice a pattern: despite all their lofty appeals to logic and reason, when the you-know-what really hits the fan, most atheists simply can’t hang. I mean, look how irrational some of these “oh-so-rational” atheists get when you actually press them for answers! First they start name-calling, then they enter full meltdown mode and resort to censorship. If atheists are so much smarter than believers and their arguments are so tight, why do so many need to resort to mudslinging and banning speech? Is it just a coincidence that the harshest invective comes from the atheists I pushed the hardest?
My tone is derogatory… [cl is] ignorant and credulous and deserves to be mocked… In the time he’s been here, he’s shown a consistent pattern of antagonizing everyone he comes in contact with, monopolizing threads, derailing discussions with perpetual complaints, quibbles and demands for attention, and generally making arguments that display a lack of good faith and responsiveness… it’s become intolerable. I’m not banning him, but I’m putting in place some restrictions on how often he can comment.
—Ebonmuse, Daylight Atheism
It’s good to be able to discuss with people who are open and respectful, and know that disagreement does not mean disrespect… You are to be congratulated, not only for your patience, but also your ability to hold an ever-growing debate together with an impressive degree of structure.
—Ritchie, Daylight Atheism
This is no defense of the annoying cl, but what a self-righteous, prissy atheist you turned out to be, Ebonmuse. I’m disappointed in you, stealing a strategem from the theists.
—The Exterminator, Daylight Atheism
I certainly didn’t get any bad impression about cl, and I can’t relate his comments with any of the things (Ebonmuse) said above. I actually thought it was quite interesting to have him around.
—Juan Felipe, Daylight Atheism
Please continue to allow cl to post his views and make it clear that he is still welcome. And let me be clear, cl is not a lunatic.
—Curtis, Daylight Atheism
With one exception, you are the most coherent and intelligent theist I’ve seen on this site…
—Steve Bowen, Daylight Atheism
I’m rooting for cl. I hope he perpetually manages to skirt the rules enough to do his damage, forcing rule revision after rule revision, ad nauseum. Awesome! Let’s watch as Ebonmuse, ever more frustrated, continues to struggle to figure out how to keep his precious private blog neat and tidy as cl keeps messing up his papers while one by one, readers leave due to an every increasing administrative presence. Outstanding! Well I won’t go. The thought of this sounds like the most entertaining thing that probably would have ever happened on Daylight Atheism. Hot damn!
—PhillyChief, Daylight Atheism
Your visit has been something of a reality check to me. It seems that when you present rational arguments and criticisms, many commenters feel territory slipping and then work up vaporous or leaky responses. I also want to remark that your presence here has considerably moved me to try being a more careful and understanding debater…
—Brad, Daylight Atheism
He’s just a jerk that likes to argue.
—KShep, Daylight Atheism
You are very articulate, and I can only assume that it’s a result of high intelligence; an intelligence that’s interested in, and can understand, healthy debate. However, at every turn, that’s not what I or others seem to get.
—ex machina, Daylight Atheism
You are a troll, a liar, and a useless sack of shit. Not only that, but you’re still wrong even after moving the goal posts and trying to re-write history. So, you can stop cyber stalking me now and trying to provoke me. I know what you are doing, and you are doing it so that you can whine about how I’m being irrational and mean to you and stroke your pathetic martyr complex. You’re a pathetic attention whore and I’ve already given you too much attention. So, back the fuck off, stop following me around the intarwebs and trying to provoke me, and fuck off.
—OMGF, Daylight Atheism
I would just like to say that, OMGF, having read the debate as a neutral observer, some of the things cl says about your style of argument are true, IMO. It is quite hasty, which means you occasionally haven’t got the central point cl is trying to make…
—John D., Daylight Atheism
Long time reader first time poster… I like reading what you have to say over at Daylight Atheism so I figured I’d pop in here.
You’re the least kneejerking person I’ve met.
—MS Quixote, author of The Dark Man trilogy
You’re ridiculous, CL. You’re a whiner, a crier, and you’re not very intelligent.
LMFAO! Can anyone outwit cl? I wonder if Vox Day is going to threaten to kick your ass now…? Anyway, just thought I’d leave that comment to express my gratitude for showing what a tactless animal VD is. You never really know what kind of a person someone is until you piss them off.
—Thinking Emotions, re: PZ Myers Memorial Debate
I’m sorry to see you leave the judging. Although you didn’t notice the same problems with Vox’s argument that I saw, you did a good job of being impartial to both sides.
—Mrs. Ward, re: PZ Myers Memorial Debate
There’s been many a day fighting it out at Voxworld when I’ve asked myself “why the hell am I having to do this?” If you can believe it, I was once at a point where I tried to actually talk sense to Taylor, of all people. That was a long time ago, and before I realized that you don’t talk sense to monsters like that. You put up a good fight, and in a way have restored my “faith,” such as it is, in Christians. I appreciate it.
—Hunt, re: PZ Myers Memorial Debate
I was glad that you participated as a judge in this debate. Having followed VD’s blog for so many years I have never seen anyone make VD’s arguments look so asinine! I look forward to reading more of your stuff as your blog has been a rewarding educational experience for me.
—Adam, re: PZ Myers Memorial Debate
That thread was epic. It was just surprising to see you of all people get flustered and apparently angry. I’m used to cl being the guy who gets everyone else worked up into a frothing rage and walks away from the encounter as calm as when it started and smelling like roses.
—Dominic Saltarelli, re: PZ Myers Memorial Debate
Greetings, found your site by way of Victor Reppert’s which I found by way of John Loftus. Just subscribed to your posts yesterday… Very refreshing.
With apologies to Edmund Burke, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stop blogging. For every snide remark that an opponent writes to you, there are five other open-minded but silent readers looking for evidence of which one of you is right… and the snide guy just lost a point with them.
I completely agree with you, and I think you make excellent points all the way through… I would encourage bloggers like [you] to continue their efforts here and elsewhere. Keep fighting the good fight, brother. And, thanks so much for inviting me to your blog! I’m honored!
I am not going to waste any more time parsing your comments to decide if they’ve crossed the line or not… So I banned you.
Be rude… cl invites rudeness. Would you want an incontinent little puppy coming into your house?
—(((Billy))) the Atheist
How old are you CL? I’d guess you have not yet experienced much life. I’d say you were under the age of 21, too young to be here. I don’t give a damn what you think of me or my deconversion at all. You’re too stupid to realize that regardless of it you must deal with the arguments in the book. They are leading people away from you [sic] faith. I’m seriously considering banning you cl, as I’ve heard you were banned on other sites. You are much too ignorant for us to have a reasonable discussion.
—John Loftus, Debunking Christianity
I admired the way you handled yourself in the discussion on John’s blog. I’m not patient enough to keep my sarcasm in check with some of them blokes, but appreciate those who are.
—David Marshall, Debunking Christianity
Just who in the bloody hell do you think you are, you Christian piece of garbage, to come here barking out orders? You’re an arrogant, condescending piece of shit. You seem to think you’re an intellectual of sorts, when all you are is a Christian who’s read a few books. John, everyone, this really is the limit. I’m out of here. I have better things to do than to waste my time with these cretins.
—Cipher, Debunking Christianity
Thank you for your wonderful response — so reasoned in the race of [Waldvogel’s] blustering.
—Annie Laurie Gaylor, Freedom From Religion Foundation
..thank you, cl. I discovered your blog on a random web search and saw it as an oasis amidst a vast desert of seemingly intractable theist-atheist debate.
cl, I really like your blog. An acerbic wit complemented by exceedingly adept rhetorical skill, with humour to boot.
I do have a lot of respect for you too. You seem to be a very intelligent and thoughtful individual with a knack for getting to the bottom of a problem, cutting through all the bullshit rhetoric on the way down. The fact that many other atheists seem to unreasonably despise you bothers me a lot, because I think that maybe they aren’t acting in good faith.
—Peter Hurford, GreatPlay.net
I like it when [cl] makes me stop, think and question if I am making unfounded assertions or if I am being sloppy. What has been annoying me about cl of late is that he is being excruciatingly anal…
…I wanted to get a message to you outside of the context of specific discussions on CSA. You make good, insightful contributions to that site, and since I often agree with you I’m glad there is someone else there defending my positions better than I sometimes can. However I don’t think anything of value would be lost if you stopped engaging in personal combat with juvenile snipers.
You and your commenters are a feast of thinking — great stuff.
—C.L. Dyck, ScitaScienda
I have no need to engage with racists, so will ignore cl’s further diatribes.
I shouldn’t feed my trolls, I know, but here’s a quick response to cl’s article about my speech…
—Luke Muehlhauser, CommonSenseAtheism
…most of what you have written here and on CSA is great (IMO).
[cl] is, as many have noticed, a master of this warfare. I’ve been following him for quite some time and he’s one of the most effective Christian trolls out there. No one can completely destroy a conversation as effectively as he does, and with such masterful grace and subtly that he rarely gets banned. This isn’t a blunt-force “U R Hitler!” troll, this is the Yoda of trolling.
[faithlessgod] fit my definition of trolling. I didn’t take any of those attacks against you seriously, and quickly categorized [faithlessgod] as [a] troll.
—JS Allen, CommonSenseAtheism
This seems to imply that cl is, at least in part, disingenuous in terms of how he responds/what he claims. Is this most likely true, supported by evidence, or merely a subjective claim?
—al friedlander, CommonSenseAtheism
…as atheists we need to make sure that someone like cl and any Christian readers of [An Apostate’s Chapel] don’t come away with the perception that the atheists caved in or were incapable of responding. I’m sure that a lot of Christians who find cl incomprehensible at times and don’t even bother reading him themselves will come away with an assumption that cl is that sort of rare intellectual theist who can prove that gods exist. And that’s how those inane rumors about the feared xian intellectuals start…
—bbk, An Apostate’s Chapel
You are in so over your head here, you are embarrassing yourself… I am well versed in many aspects of evolution biology, through my academic background, and my professional life. Unless your academic degrees and background match mine, cease and desist. Return to philosophy and rhetoric, or whatever it is you perceive your strengths to be. They are definitely not science, even at the high school level.
—R.C. Moore, Evangelical Realism
You’re doing a fine job.
—Prof. Larry Moran, Dept. of Biochemistry at University of Toronto, re: R.C. Moore & others
Phyletic change and vicariance (or, drift and selection versus population isolation), as cl points out, are much better ways of describing what are unfortunately more commonly known as micro- and macro- evolution, respectively.
—Dan, Biology postdoc at University of Cyprus, re: R.C. Moore & others
cl says, “The minute you call yourself a Christian or an Atheist or whatever the heck else, you automatically get painted by other people’s interpretations of those words, which are almost always different and almost always distorted.” cl’s point couldn’t be more on. As cl points out there is an important reason for not claiming any real religious (or lack thereof) belief. It puts logical constraints on one’s arguments due directly to the bias of the individual that is translating the English to mind ideas of what it means to be religious.
cl, I have to say, while I fundamentally disagree with you, you are an individual which I highly respect. I think your responses are always well thought out and your insights always well thought out and pertinently derived. [Y]ou have made me a stronger atheist in my regards to critical thinking and debating. I really can’t wait to hear more from you. Hell, I’d even buy you a drink, good sir. Cheers!
—Parker, Evangelical Realism
Bottom line? Sometimes I think he’s right about certain arguments, and I don’t have a problem admitting that. Other times, however, I think he’s wrong, and I’ve called him on that. But I have found he can be pretty reasonable if you (1) don’t overstate your case, (2) make concessions when you have, and (3) insist he do the same.
I really can’t thank you enough for catching me on my error in rhetoric. I always love a good debate! And I always enjoy your posts, as well! Keep up the great writing and the excellent eye for detail!
You make me smarter…
Note to all my regular readers: Since An Apostate’s Chapel is a free-speech zone, I don’t censor conversations. As it appears that cl is a troll, please note that I will not be responding to him any longer. I ask that you refrain from doing so, as well. Please don’t feed the troll!
…I can’t reconcile being a “freethinker” with banning speech. [cl’s] comments are not offensive in the normal understanding of that term, and he poses absolutely no threat except perhaps to some imagined decorum. Why can’t atheists lighten up, for no-Christ’s sake?
Is it going to distract from my meal when crazy uncle cl starts blathering out nonsense, pick his ears with a carrot or start taking his pants off? No. In fact, it might actually heighten the experience in some amusing way. So no, I don’t see cl’s work as damage.
I am beginning to suspect that you are a troll cl. Albeit an evolved troll, but a troll nonetheless. Perhaps we should all stop feeding the troll?
—GaySolomon, Evangelical Realism
[cl is] is either a sophist or an incompetent when it comes to the english language… (sic)
—ThatOtherGuy, Evangelical Realism
I’d say cl is pretty sharp… it may be tempting at times to think that “the other guy” is arguing out of some personal character flaw rather than a sincere desire to acknowledge the truth, I still think it’s better to debate respectfully… It is disrespectful to make unsupported accusations against people, e.g. by suggesting that their views are caused by an intrinsically corrupt and immoral nature.
—Deacon Duncan, Evangelical Realism, 3-9-09
[cl] cannot refute my facts, so he needs must find (sic) some scapegoat in order to claim that he has confronted the enemy and proven them wrong… cl, sadly, has proven himself to be the sort of guest who comes into your living room and sneaks behind your couch to take a crap on the floor, just so he can tell all your neighbors how bad your house smells and what an unsanitary housekeeper you are… an interesting case study in the negative effects a Christian worldview has on a reasonably intellectual mind.
—Deacon Duncan, Evangelical Realism, 6-17-09
I strongly discourage discussion of the character, abilities, motives, or personal ancestry of individual commenters, as tempting as such comments may be at times. I discourage the posting of comments that make frequent use of the pronoun “you,” as in “you always…” or “you never…” or “you are just so…”, when directed at a specific individual.
—Deacon Duncan, Evangelical Realism, 4-9-09
I won’t be publishing your most recent comment because it’s a return to the same sort of schtick you’ve pulled here before: re-writing other people’s arguments to make yourself look misunderstood and/or unfairly accused, taking “polyvalent” positions so that when people address your points you can claim to have said something else, distorting other people’s arguments, trolling for negative reactions, and so on.
—Deacon Duncan, Evangelical Realism, 10-8-09
You win… You’re a disingenuous sophist through and through, cl. And a friggin’ narcissist to boot! Since I’ve thoroughly and purposefully broken the Deacon’s rules of engagement, I shall consider my right to post henceforth annulled, and move on – dramatic pause, lights out.
—jim, Evangelical Realism
He either thinks in a very weird way or he’s quite the con artist.
I will gladly admit that I have a boner for cl. Maybe some day I’ll even earn a place of honor on cl’s Blog of Infamy.
—Eneasz, Evangelical Realism
If you’re here playing devil’s advocate, then, hey, you do a great job at it, it’s a service, keep us sharp… You’re a smart guy, but those are exactly the ones who give the worst headaches!
—Lifeguard, An Apostate’s Chapel
You are a waste of time, cl. A big fat black hole of bullshit sucking in everyone who comes into contact with you.
As for all that harsh invective that’s come your way, umm… I gotta say, I’ve seen some of the invective, but I haven’t seen the behavior on your part that called for it. Maybe I’ve just not seen enough? I don’t know… from what I’ve read, I can tell that you’re a smart person, and whether you deserved any of that treatment or not is quite frankly immaterial to me; I just want to deal with the smart person at the eye of that storm.
—D, She Who Chatters
I now think that you’re an atheist, just having fun at other atheists’ expense. If that’s the case, kudos.
Motherfucker, this is an interesting blog… Quite the group of commenters.